Fram Wikipǣdian
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Archive 1

Block[ādihtan fruman]

Hi. Can you please explain why you blocked an IP for two weeks with no warning? PiRSquared17 (talk) 17:52, 29 Mǣdmōnaþ 2013 (UTC)

It created "Little Einsteins" with the content "Maƿmaþisne Little Einsteins maþǣre in ma mlada maki Disney Junior nasapþisse unda masēo maþa. Manki Little Einsteins Huhnad kaþisneæna moþǣre naþȳsakita". I am not sure of the normal practice re warning on other Wikipedias; but mostly in the past when blocking makers of vandalism, I have done so without warning. Benmoreandflower.JPG  Ƿes hāl!   Fiordland Lake Marian.jpg 20:50, 29 Mǣdmōnaþ 2013 (UTC)
Yes, I saw your message. It is fine. This block was not really bad, but I did wonder why you blocked for 2 weeks. In the future, please only block IPs for durations up to 2 days if the user wasn't given a warning. If the vandal continues, you may extend the block. Of course, more disruptive vandals may get longer blocks. PiRSquared17 (talk) 22:10, 30 Mǣdmōnaþ 2013 (UTC)
P.S. Thank you very much for your work as an admin here.
Okay, thank you. Benmoreandflower.JPG  Ƿes hāl!   Fiordland Lake Marian.jpg 22:19, 30 Mǣdmōnaþ 2013 (UTC)
You in troubleeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. Flag of Virginia.svg Wodenhelm (Ȝesprec) Confederate Rebel Flag.svg 03:44, 2 Wēodmōnaþ 2013 (UTC)
Not really, luckily ;) PiRSquared17 (talk) 01:24, 7 Wēodmōnaþ 2013 (UTC)

Usbecastan[ādihtan fruman]

I thought the "c" spelling better; I avoid "k" wherever possible as it is so rare, and in the case of Usbecastan there is no doubt that it is a hard-c, not a "ch".

For the people, who would then be Usbece, you may question it, but then "C" is not always soft before "e": Cent is hard, and the Argi (Argives) have a g as hard as nails (like the people). Hogweard (talk) 22:38, 1 Wēodmōnaþ 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Stylistic and font options[ādihtan fruman]

Please review and give comments. PiRSquared17 (talk) 02:56, 1 Hāligmōnaþ 2013 (UTC)

Deletions[ādihtan fruman]

Clear the deletion category again? Flocc:Candidates for speedy deletion. PiRSquared17 (talk) 12:00, 18 Hāligmōnaþ 2013 (UTC)

Temp adminship expires[ādihtan fruman]

Your temporary adminship will expire next month. I'd like to nominate you for adminship in a few weeks (or you could self-nominate). Maybe, if enough people support, you could become a permanent sysop. I'm also thinking of nominating Hogweard and Wodenhelm, both of whom have previous experience with the tools, and maybe Espreon. What do you think? PiRSquared17 (talk) 18:15, 26 Hāligmōnaþ 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for reminding me. I'll re-nominate myself. I am fine with the others you mentioned also, and would back them. Benmoreandflower.JPG  Ƿes hāl!   Fiordland Lake Marian.jpg 09:41, 29 Hāligmōnaþ 2013 (UTC)
Oppose. Flag of Virginia.svg Wodenhelm (Ȝesprec) Confederate Rebel Flag.svg 00:07, 30 Hāligmōnaþ 2013 (UTC)

Sahsisk[ādihtan fruman]

Hi Gottistgut! I don't know whether you know about this language or not, but Old Saxon was one of the closest languages to Old English that ever was spoken. But unfortunately, this language is mostly unknown and none seems to take attention to it, especially people on Incubator... For the last two years I've been struggling so that Incubator may create an Old Saxon wikipedia (, a wiki that will certainly never be created... and thus I wanted to know whether it was possible to make an Old Saxon Portal on this Old English wikipedia, a portal that would host every article that has to do with the language and culture of the continental Saxons? I thought it would be wonderful if the portail could be bilingual, writen in Old English and in Old Saxon below, and maybe with a Portal article writen in Old Saxon (don't worry this won't be a real article, only a template with few Old Saxon texts that will be changed every month maybe). There will be no fear that this "Portal article" may appear among Old English articles, this will only be a template. I just wanted to submit this idea, because it is very frustrating to see that a wonderful language like Old Saxon - which by the way could have a very steady writing style - is denied the right to have its own wikipedia as Old English or Latin have. PS: Don't judge Old Saxon by what you see on Incubator, I made this page some times ago and the writing is not steady at all, compared to what it could be. I simply stopped writing on it since I know it deserves to nothing... --Stardsen (talk) 23:55, 1 Winterfylleþ 2013 (UTC)

Hello, yes, I know of it. I have read a little bit of Heliand. While I sympathize with what you're envisioning, I don't think it is an utterly good idea. The reasons being:
  • Old Saxon is less well documented than, say, Old English or Old Norse - meaning more neologisms and more borrowings necessary (the extent to which we must necessarily do this for Old English already is less than ideal, so even more is also troublesome)
  • This Wikipedia has historically been extremely fragmented (and is still somewhat), which in my opinion hugely undermined the quality of the material hosted here. We have just recently made significant moves to unify the source (thanks much to PiRSquared17 with some clever coding to facilitate that), a huge improvement; and some style standardizations. Basically, we have limited human resources, and fragmentation just sucks those resources even more.
  • This is, after all, an Old English Wikipedia
  • The imperative to use and build up ancient languages is nowhere near as strong as living languages, some of which have millions of speakers, but are nevertheless relatively resource-poor (for example, Quechua) - it is done by enthusiasts (myself included) and knowledgable people and interested people, for enthusiasts and knowledgable people and people and interested people - it is culture, which is great; but humanity is not lacking for culture
  • There are many ways to use a language - one need not only use a language on Wikipedia (translating Oliver Twister to Old Saxon is absolutely acceptable) (I am also pretty sure there are a few other free software projects that might be happy enough to be translated into Old Saxon)
  • This Wikipedia is essentially here by grace - under current policy, it would not be allowed to be started; some would like it to cease, construing it as pretty much useless. If this Wikipedia has a promising future, then I think that future is to hold decent, quality content in Old English (more so than currently) as a resource for scholarly or educational purposes
I am sorry to sound so glum, but that is the way I have come to see it. I feel pragmatism is in order. Benmoreandflower.JPG  Ƿes hāl!   Fiordland Lake Marian.jpg 10:36, 2 Winterfylleþ 2013 (UTC)
No problem I understand this wiki is still ongoing loads of protestations and misunderstandings, I myself had to answer to narrow-minded people that didn't see the beauty behind reviving these old wonderul languages... The least I can do is to work on an Old Saxon wikisource, it is the only project that could be accepted. Anyway I think it could be okay for Old Saxon, in the realm of vocabulary ; thanks to Middle Low German, many roots that were unattested in OSX can be recontructed, and sometimes by comparing Old English and OHG (or other languages), we may be pretty sure that a cognate also existed in OSX. By the way, you spoke about softwares that might be happy to welcome Old Saxon, but can I ask you some? I'm looking for interesting projects involving Old Saxon, and other people to bother with this old language :) --Stardsen (talk) 19:03, 2 Winterfylleþ 2013 (UTC)
I agree with Gottistgut, but a possible solution would be to link to the Old Saxon Wikipedia test project on Incubator somewhere on the Main Page. PiRSquared17 (talk) 14:09, 2 Winterfylleþ 2013 (UTC)
Good idea thanks, I will try to make the link thank you --Stardsen (talk) 19:03, 2 Winterfylleþ 2013 (UTC)
Looking at [1], [2], and [3], I would conclude that Translatewiki would accept Old Saxon as a new language project. You can see projects translated on Translatewiki here.While some projects would not accept an Old Saxon translation (MediaWiki, Firefox), I think others would, by my experience with their accepting OE translations (FreeCol, for example). I'm pretty sure Battle for Wesnoth would also accept an Old Saxon translation. You may also be able to get some more significant software translations accepted (for example, one of the countless desktop environments available for Linux (Gnome, Unity, Plasma, Cinnamon, XFCE, LXDE, Mate, etc...) - but you would have to try for that yourself by contacting members of the relevant community who have know-so or say-so). Benmoreandflower.JPG  Ƿes hāl!   Fiordland Lake Marian.jpg 20:46, 2 Winterfylleþ 2013 (UTC)

Ásdís Rán[ādihtan fruman]

Please explain this deletion. PiRSquared17 (talk) 11:04, 2 Winterfylleþ 2013 (UTC)

As it said in the recommendation for deletion: "promotional, no indication of significance"... Do you think otherwise? Benmoreandflower.JPG  Ƿes hāl!   Fiordland Lake Marian.jpg 11:14, 2 Winterfylleþ 2013 (UTC)
Nah, I agree, but you might want to notify the author (Wōdenhelm). PiRSquared17 (talk) 14:03, 2 Winterfylleþ 2013 (UTC)

Permanent admin[ādihtan fruman]

Congratulations! m:SRP#Gottistgut.40angwiki. PiRSquared17 (talk) 13:37, 18 Winterfylleþ 2013 (UTC)

Could you please clear the speedy deletion category again? PiRSquared17 (talk) 01:12, 20 Winterfylleþ 2013 (UTC)
Thank you, and sure. Benmoreandflower.JPG  Ƿes hāl!   Fiordland Lake Marian.jpg 08:53, 20 Winterfylleþ 2013 (UTC)

Your favorite category; some pages[ādihtan fruman]


Would you please deal with the members of your favorite category?

Also, would you please move Wicipǣdia:Gemǣnscipe_Ingang to Wikipǣdia:Gemǣnscipe_Ingangand delete [[Mōtung:Wicipǣdia:Gemǣnscipe_Ingang]] and Mōtung:Wicipǣdia (or maybe deal with this one in some other way)?


Espreon (talk) 14:55, 22 Gēolmōnaþ 2013 (UTC)

Espreon, would you like to run for adminship here? PiRSquared17 (talk) 02:35, 25 Gēolmōnaþ 2013 (UTC)

Done, done, and done. Hey, just so ya know, I'll be away and unavailable for action for almost a week from tomorrow. Benmoreandflower.JPG  Ƿes hāl!   Fiordland Lake Marian.jpg 10:39, 29 Gēolmōnaþ 2013 (UTC)

Westernu Australia[ādihtan fruman]

I'd not spotted that wyrt sūþerno. On the other hand we have sūðerne rind, also feminine. (In Cwoen sūðerne it might be a weak form "Queen of The South".)

Sweet says that adjectives ending in "-e" don't follow the "u" form, so I took it from that. Hogweard (talk) 12:21, 19 Þrimilcemōnaþ 2014 (UTC)

Adjectives - weak and strong[ādihtan fruman]

Thanks for your tireless correction of my overhasty work.

On adjectives, Sweet says (in summary) that the weak form is used:

  1. After the definite article
  2. After þes, þēos, þis etc
  3. Often, but not always, after possessive adjectives and the genitive of pronouns.
  4. Usually, but not invariably, in vocative phrases.
  5. In the comparison of adjectives, and ordinal numbers (other than oþer)

(Mitchell & Robinson are a bit briefer, just saying that The strong form is used when the adj stands alone. The weak form appears when the adj follows a demonstrative or a possessive adjective eg mīn ealda frēond.)

I don't know that there is a rule behind "Often, but not always" after possessives - possibly just idiomatic usage.

Hogweard (talk) 18:10, 5 Mǣdmōnaþ 2014 (UTC)

For personal possessive pronouns, they all cause weak declension, except third person (his, hire, heora). Here are some historical examples of third person possessive pronouns not causing weak declension:
  • Mid his ǽwum wífe
  • Æt his sylfes múþe
  • Sécþ his ágen wuldor
  • Be heora ágenum handgewinne lifigeaþ
However, double-checking, I have just now in BT found several examples of third person possessives causing the weak declension, which means that both weak and strong were historically precedented practices for third person possessives. As such, it was inappropriate of me to correct that. I will avoid doing it in the future. Sorry for any inconvencience or confusion. Oh, and here are some examples of it causing weak declension:
  • Gif he ne gehulpe hire sárlícan dreórinysse
  • Gif wé healfunga and be summm dǽle heora gódan weorc secgeaþ
  • Hí nú gyt heora ealdan gewunon healdaþ and from rihtum stígum healtiaþ
  • Hé léde hyne on hys níwan byrgene
My apologies. Benmoreandflower.JPG  Ƿes hāl!   Fiordland Lake Marian.jpg 22:42, 7 Mǣdmōnaþ 2014 (UTC)

Handseten[ādihtan fruman]

Ah, that article I rushed when a job come up. I took 'settedon hiera handa þæron' from the word 'handseten', intending "set their hands to it", which is what we might say today too. 'Setan' does have that meaning but a better phrasing may use the noun "handseten", as in these examples from B&T:

Me saldan heora hondsetene ðisse gerædnesse (they put their hands to this agreement)
Her is seo hondseten. Ego Oswald archiepiscopus... (here are the signatures. I Oswald archbishop, etc.)
Ælfred cing Osulfe his hondsetene sealde

If the Treaty was sealed then 'inseglian' would be better.

Hogweard (talk) 08:54, 6 Wēodmōnaþ 2014 (UTC)

Gecorene gemynddagas[ādihtan fruman]

Now lost in the complexities of the programming, but I set the daily bit of the front page up to draw its material from the existing material for "Gecorene gemynddagas". This morning it is showing an old version. The difficulty seems to be that the source material assumes that the month is Æfterra Gēola but the {{CURRENTMONTHNAME}} variable produces Se Æfterra Gēola, under which a different set of material has been saved.

Which we use does not matter, but the system has become disjointed this month.

Hogweard (talk) 14:15, 22 Se Æfterra Gēola 2015 (UTC)

It seems to be sorted out today somehow, back to looking at 'Æfterra Gēola'. If I ever have the spare hours I might work out (again) how it all works and see if there is a disjoin that needs resolution. Hogweard (talk) 09:46, 23 Se Æfterra Gēola 2015 (UTC)

Cool. I myself did not see the glitch. Benmoreandflower.JPG  Ƿes hāl!   Fiordland Lake Marian.jpg 20:50, 23 Se Æfterra Gēola 2015 (UTC)

Languages[ādihtan fruman]

I have looked at the alternatives and the context in which they are used. Gereord appears to be the best for naming a language. Geþeodu or Geþeode express a national language. Spræc is 'language' in the sense of the capacity for speech, and in the plural it appears to mean "discourses".

The ASC(D) in translating the opening of Bede uses geþeodu.

B&T has a lengthy section of examples of each. The OE Translater is helpful too. It lists Lædenspræc, Lædengereord and Lædengeþeode for 'Latin', which suggests overlapping meanings.

You are correct that gereord is neuter (although it turns up as feminine on occasion). I was quite convinced that it was a masculine noun and I will now have to find all the places I have used it to correct that.

Hogweard (talk) 11:34, 25 Solmōnaþ 2015 (UTC)

wrǣsness[ādihtan fruman]

I used wrǣsness for "chain", as in "island chain". In the few minutes I have I can't find the text with that exact form. (Otherwise tēam would work.) Hogweard (talk) 07:02, 8 Ēastermōnaþ 2015 (UTC)

Translating the interface in your language, we need your help[ādihtan fruman]

Hello Gottistgut, thanks for working on this wiki in your language. We updated the list of priority translations and I write you to let you know. The language used by this wiki (or by you in your preferences) needs about 100 translations or less in the priority list. You're almost done!
To add or change translations for all wikis, please use, the MediaWiki localisation project.

Please register on if you didn't yet and then help complete priority translations (make sure to select your language in the language selector). With a couple hours' work or less, you can make sure that nearly all visitors see the wiki interface fully translated. Nemo 14:06, 26 Ēastermōnaþ 2015 (UTC)

Quick question[ādihtan fruman]

Wow, how do you know how to speak Old English? Isn't it considered an extinct language? DimensionQualm (mōtung) 06:58, 16 Sēremōnaþ 2015 (UTC)

Because I was able to learn it from people who had studied ancient Old English documents, and I learned and learn it from ancient Old English documents themselves.
To be clear, I do not care very much if some people somewhere think any particular language is "extinct" - so I don't care if it's "considered extinct". If by "extinct" you mean "has not been used at all for a thousand or so years", that is obviously a wrong opinion. It is true that it is currently not used much at all compared to thousands of other languages, and I am also quite sure that there has been a break between ancient and modern speakers of Old English. It is also true that there are scarcely any people alive who have learnt Old English well as children ("native speakers"). I am fairly confident that it is not true that there are no people alive who learnt Old English as children.
I think that answers your questions. Benmoreandflower.JPG  Ƿes hāl!   Fiordland Lake Marian.jpg 09:38, 17 Sēremōnaþ 2015 (UTC)

Help[ādihtan fruman]

Thanks for your contributions. I've been studying OE independently for over a year and I feel inspired enough to contribute and actually apply what I've learned. I find myself stumbling a bit over the grammar and I would like a second (more experienced) pair of eyes to proofread my work. Is there anyone, like yourself, willing to help me occasionally?

Also, are there any resources (i.e. dictionaries, other users, or certain writings) that have helped you gain such fluency in OE?

Hello, yes, I am happy to proofread your work and try answer any grammar questions you have. Also, a good online dictionary for OE is Bosworth and Toller. Sometimes, it takes a little effort to find what your looking for there, but if there a historical OE word for something recorded anywhere, you can most likely find it there. Benmoreandflower.JPG  Ƿes hāl!   Fiordland Lake Marian.jpg 07:54, 6 Winterfylleþ 2015 (UTC)