Wikipǣdiamōtung:Style Vote

wiki etiquette

is there some place to report uncivil behavior? I'm not enjoying reading Wodenhelm's spat with James. I'm just trying to work up the courage to make an article. --Kayla1990 19:40, 31 Gēolmōnaþ 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well, James is an administrator, from what I understand. And from the looks of the page's activity history, he's aware of what's going on. (He'd erased Ƿodenhelm's addition to the top of the page, then must've thought better of it for some reason and put it back.) *Chuckles.* Just overlook Ƿodenhelm's edits if they bug you too much. LOL. The guy's a friend of mine, but yeah ... he's rough around the edges. — Scíráþ 04:31, 1 Se Æfterra Gēola 2009 (UTC)[reply]

There's a reason for that, Kayla. I'm nice to those who are nice to me, and i'm unpleasant to those who are unpleasant to me. I merely return what I receive. The only difference between me and James as far as interaction goes, I'm simply far more direct and upfront about it. —Ƿōdenhelm 16:27, 1 Se Æfterra Gēola 2009 (UTC)[reply]

If you were a medævial philosophy, you'd be Cynicism. :-)) Heheh. That's a good thing, though: you'd fit right into voivode Tepes' court. :-D — Scíráþ 01:34, 2 Se Æfterra Gēola 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, crap. I'm so sorry if anyone read the joke I had in the above comment before I got a chance to think about it & decided to edit it out. The implications were completely unintended, and I didn't even realize they could be there until on the way over to work tonight. I only hope no one knows what the hell I'm talking about, but if so ... again, I apologize. — Scíráþ 03:57, 2 Se Æfterra Gēola 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Compromise

How about this: we call the vote and hold off on making any new yogh/wynns until we can find out how to set a user preference to show the wynn/yogh if the user wants it. This has a few benefits:

if you want w/g, you get it. If you want wynn/yogh, you get it.
editing is through a normal keyboard with w/g, but it will show up as wynn/yogh if that is your preference.
no need for custom keyboards. Just use the little letters under your edit box.

With this, we can likely set the Junius font as an optional font on the wiki so that we use proper medieval letters (r, s, d, f were different back then) as well.--CalebGuitarman 22:37, 3 Se Æfterra Gēola 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This is a character set issue, not a glyph issue. Please be careful lest the data in this wiki become pretty useless. Evertype 11:13, 4 Se Æfterra Gēola 2009 (UTC)[reply]

If the other editors go for it, fine by me. I don't want to call off a vote without there being support to do so.--James 23:01, 3 Se Æfterra Gēola 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'll go for it. No one will have to conform to anything. Works for me. —Ƿōdenhelm 23:03, 3 Se Æfterra Gēola 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'm going to the metawiki and see what we can do about this. If everyone will sign here to suspend the vote, pending answers, I will get this taken care of. We can already choose interface language. Choosing interface fonts should be no problem. --James 23:18, 3 Se Æfterra Gēola 2009 (UTC)[reply]

CalebGuitarman, I think the easiest is a monobook setting for the user to change his own font. James, you're the admin. See what it would take to change the settings for this - it'll make your life easier. --209.34.235.6 21:55, 24 Solmōnaþ 2009 (UTC)

A custom font will not do the job. If that were the case, then I would have merely made one for my own use a long time ago. You dont seem to understand that. Furthermore, are you going to map out all of the unicode characters? Triplicate pages harm nothing, and allow all pages to appear as they should. — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ 22:19, 24 Solmōnaþ 2009 (UTC)

Sign to temporarily hold off to find out how to get the fonts altered as a user preference

I'm in favor of putting the vote on hold, but think that discussion should continue. We've got at least four different ideas floating around now, two of which didn't exist at the start. Also, I fear that the neutrality of the vote has been compromised. All four ideas need to be presented fairly in the beginning with no interruptions. After we learn more about the meta issue, I think the page should be remade and the vote completely restarted. Uurad 23:27, 3 Se Æfterra Gēola 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Suspend it shall be. —Ƿōdenhelm 23:36, 3 Se Æfterra Gēola 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Oh yeah, see about having a macron/accute option too. I do macrons myself, but everyone's got their preference on that as well. —Ƿōdenhelm 23:40, 3 Se Æfterra Gēola 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Agree. That sounds a good compromise. If it can be done, and I see no reason why not, then actually determining / creating the alternative font, with W appearing as Ƿ and with G appearing as either an insular G or Ȝ, should be easy enough. Hogweard 09:10, 4 Se Æfterra Gēola 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Disagree as this is a character set issue. Old English MSS did not write ȝegaderung or ġegaderung with two kinds of g. It wrote ᵹeᵹaderunᵹ with three insular g's, that is, gegaderung using modern carolingian g's. (To write ȝeȝaderunȝ with yoghs is perverse and incorrect) To have a robot automatically choose between yogh or insular-g or g-dot and g, it means that every word with g would have to be written with the font and back varienties of g marked. This is not what Old English did, and it would require users to make the distinction and indeed it would seem to proscribe gegaderung as a spelling. Why is this bad? Well, folks, let's say you want to search (sécan as opposed to gán) for a word, you want to find all examples of the word, don't you? Evertype 11:13, 4 Se Æfterra Gēola 2009 (UTC)[reply]

That's why I brought up the point about making the distinction. We'll get it sorted out, you dont worry about it. —Ƿōdenhelm 12:40, 4 Se Æfterra Gēola 2009 (UTC)[reply]

But yeah, hogweard, it's not a font issue, but character encoding. For instance, I have a few runic fonts, but they dont actually use the runic unicode range. instead, they simply take the place of the roman range... which isnt correct. Simply replacing the location of g with the physical appearance of ȝ does nothing more than make ALL g's appear as ȝ's. And if that's what was needed, then i'd have just made my own font. It's the distinction between g and yogh (BOTH being used in text) which is desired for those of us who support yogh and wynn. Even w is used sometimes, for non-englisc proper names: World of Warcraft, Ƿoruld Gūþcræftes, but never Ƿorld of Ƿarcraft. —Ƿōdenhelm 14:09, 4 Se Æfterra Gēola 2009 (UTC)[reply]

On macrons

I don't prefer the macron. As a diacritical mark it seems very artificial to me (pace Latvian and Hawaiian). Typographically, I find that the look of the acute accent to be more pleasing. As I am an Irish speaker I find it easier to type. It looks good in Icelandic and Old Norse, and it looks good in Old English. It also has better font support: Latin 1 includes ÁáÉéÍíÓóÚúÝýÞþÐðÆæ (omitting only Ǽǽ, while ĀāĒēĪīŌōŪūȲȳǷƿȜȝǢǣꝹꝺꝻꝼꝽᵹꞂꞃꞄꞅꞆꞇ⁊ are unavailable in many fonts) From a character set point of view including questions of searchability either macrons or acutes should be used in the orthography of this wiki. This is an encyclopaedia. Data not aesthetics should be a primary concern. Evertype 11:13, 4 Se Æfterra Gēola 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Eh here, i'll be nice and re-word my previous comment. Compromise is the proper way wikipedia resolves a conflict. Without it, people continue to battle. And trust me, without this compromise proposal, I personally would then fight even harder. And i dont think anyone wants that. So compromise and User Preference it is! —Ƿōdenhelm 13:16, 4 Se Æfterra Gēola 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I've got to agree. Not everyone is going to get exactly what they want. Compromise is essential. Uurad 19:59, 4 Se Æfterra Gēola 2009 (UTC)[reply]

What are we "compromising" on here? You're going to allow both macrons and acutes now? (I didn't propose anything. I made a case for why I prefer acutes in Old English text.) Evertype 16:23, 5 Se Æfterra Gēola 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Solution?

Hello, I have created a script to automatically convert between gw, ȝƿ, and runes. Please see Ƿicipǣdia:Þorpes_Ƿiella#Different_pages_for_different_spellings. PiRSquared17 (talk) 00:51, 26 Winterfylleþ 2012 (UTC)